is it time?

Is it time for Scotland to become an independent nation? 

If it is why?  What would we gain?

If not, why not?  Would it really be chaos if we broke away from England?


14 Responses to is it time?

  1. Alasdair says:

    Is it time? It’s always the time! Independence is not solely about economic and social benefits, it’s about self-governance, it’s about having the freedom to make decisions without reference to westminster in the best interests of the country.

    Currently we have a parliament which has it’s hands tied in terms that there are many areas that it is unable to take action one way or other (consider dawn raids), that is unable to represent itself fully in Europe … it is well understood that the MP’s that represent Scottish interests at those meetings are not only lucky if they are allowed to speak, they are lucky if they get into the room.

    Would it be chaos if we broke away from the UK? It would be difficult, of course it would, let’s not kid ourselves … there’d be rangling over the settlement and it could get messy, but once complete it is likely that relations would be good.

    My fear is that the existing parliament will get more powers … an odd thing for a nationalist to say? well no, If the existing parliament recieves more powers I would envisage a scenario where those other parts of the UK unable to make autonomous decisions in key areas would be jealous, the press would stir it up and it is likely that there would be ‘anti-english’ and ‘anti-scots’ sentiments on both sides of the border. I don’t believe this would be the case if there was a straight split – it’d be less ‘messy’.

    Anyway, that’s what I think – glad to see another blog talking scottish politics, they seem to get swallowed up on here 😉

  2. TheJillilator says:

    I am woefully ignorant regarding these things, but I will toss in my two cents and say that I happen to find Scottish accents to be much better than English accents (and both to be better than my own–American).

  3. Rose says:

    Hear, hear! I just love the brogue as well!

    Funny that two American ladies should weigh in on this issue, but I guess we do historically know a little bit about pulling away from English rule! It’s probably why we are independent from England – the Scots that immigrated here from there after the defeat of Prince Charlie and the awful Clearances were itching for a fight they could win!

    So, educate us. What would Scottish Independence, or Scottish re-independence, from England entail? What are the pros and what are the cons?

    As far as the comment about anti-English and anti-Scots sentiments, it seems like those feelings exist already, the English look down on the Scots and the Scots resent the English-how do you avoid that?

    I do know that our state of Alaska has tried for a long time to become independent of the states. It will never happen because Alaska has too many natural resources, such as oil, that we depend on – does the same hold true for Scotland?

    Interesting discussion – Happy Anniversary, by the way!

  4. Stewart says:

    Thanks Rose!

    The short answer to ‘What would independence entail?’ is going it alone. Sctoland would have to take responsibility for all of its political life, create branches of government to oversee them and have a messy divorce with England.

    The pros would be we would get a new national anthem, control of our own foreign and domestic policy, closer links with europe…

    The cons would be the protracted negotiations, no more GB team in the olympics, and I can’t think of any more.

    Anyone else got any pros and cons?

  5. Alasdair says:

    Control of governmental policy has to be the biggest (and broadest) pro.
    New anthem, agreed … how about Scotland The Brave 🙂
    More scotland orientated media (as opposed to English orientated), although I imagine murdoch would ensure no real change on that front 🙄

    It might be difficult at times … but it’s hardly a walk in the park at the moment … thanks Labour and all the other ‘southern’ based parties
    we’ll have helped pay for an olympics in London, and will definitely not get any real benefits (no change on that one then)
    No, I struggle for cons … unless the insist us accepting Brown and Blair as part of the deal. That could be a deal breaker …

    I don’t for a minute believe any of the cons touted by the unionist parties … in fact I can’t even remember any …

  6. Stewart says:

    I’d much prefer a brand NEW anthem. I hate Scotland the Brave and think Flower Of Scotland would be kind of out of date were we indeed to ‘be a nation again’.

    I think for me the real pros would be a government that represented the wishes of the Scottish people. The majority of Scottish MPs voted against the war in Iraq. The majority of Scots don’t want Trident replaced. The majority of Scots don’t want nuclear power.

    Would we be a republic or keep the Queen?

  7. Alasdair says:

    Maybe some Martyn Bennett (rest his soul) for the anthem, a bit more up beat 😉 , or better yet some Proclaimers 😆 , I think Scotland the Brave is great incidently, really gets me going … maybe a bit out of date right enough, maybe there could be a referendum on it, or maybe not!

    I would definitely keep the Queen as head of state, the idea of an elected head of state makes my blood run cold – it’s an entirely different kettle of fish. I mean who’s got better qualifications to be head of state, she already is for umpteen countries, she’s been doing it for the last 50+ years …

    … for the record, I’m no royalist, but if it ain’t broke why fix it? It’s not the head of state that’s broken, it’s the union.

    Current President’s that spring to mind include Bush and Mugabi (sp?), hardly a roaring endorsement for that particular route …

  8. Avril says:

    I hear what you guys are saying and admit that independence has an appeal, a huge appeal if I’m honest. The inevitability that things would get worse before getting much better doesn’t put me off. Divorce does that. What does put me off is the Scottish Nationalist Party and therein lies the dilemma. I’m sure I’m not alone.

    So, jury still out with only a few days to go!

  9. Rose says:

    We here in the States already think that “Scotland the Brave” is your national anthem! 🙂

    And, btw Stewart, I like it, I even know all the words!
    However, the Proclaimers would get my vote, too.

    I didn’t realize that you could be both Independent and keep Elizabeth as your head of state. So that would mean you would get Charles next?

  10. Stewart says:

    Most of the Commonwealth (the former British Empire) still have the queen as their head of state, including Australia and Canada.

    God Save the Queen is our national anthem. For most things we use Flower of Scotland after a brief and unsuccessful flirtation with Scotland the Brave.

    I kind of agree with Avril. I’m not against independence at all but wouldn’t choose the SNP to govern. I the other parties would come out for a referendum!

  11. pmk says:

    Bit late joining in here but I’m also in agreement with Avril about the SNP and I think that’s why I’m probably reluctant to vote ‘for’ independence (but a big part of it is shocking ignorance on my part). My personal frustration is the lack of balanced information about any of the parties meaning that ordinary people find it very hard to decide who to vote for. I feel that a lot of it comes down to ‘what have they done for me?’ meaning that lots will hark back to the Conservative party heyday of letting people buy their council houses at a discount (don’t mention the fact that now there is a complete lack of local authority housing and an awful lot of people are homeless as a result, that’s not what the people who benefitted want to know!) or similar examples from Labour. Where do you start when you are trying to make up your own mind?! I tried at 18 when I was in the first flush of idealistic ‘I can vote’ syndrome to get copies of manifestoes. Don’t get me on the soapbox that is Labour wanted me to send money for it! Now I’m really glad the manifestoes are freely available! Oh I just don’t have a clue who to vote for…I’m looking for the ‘perfect’ party which is NEVER going to exist!!

  12. JohnO says:

    Edinburgh Uni have an interesting site giving some voting info.
    Try the ‘My Vote Navigator’ to see how your own views fit with those of the main parties.

    I think I’d pretty much echo the view that I’d like to see a greater degree of autonomy – but I’d never trust the SNP with it.

  13. Alasdair says:

    Thanks for that JohnO, looks like they know me to well … Labour came bottom of the list, even below the Tories (and I would die before voting for them!!)

    The thing with greater autonomy, and how i view it is that the SNP are the party to deliver it … it is why they exist. If having gained it you don’t like SNP, vote for one of the other parties come the election after the split …

    … however you vote this time around, however anyone votes, I would implore them not to vote for Labour, they’ve had their chance and they blew it, I have a genuine fear of another Labour led administration and all that that might entail …

    … if you want greater autonomy or independence the only party that won’t deliver either is Labour (unless I missed something), all the other main parties either want more powers for holyrood or independence, even the Tories (I think 😕 )

  14. Avril says:

    only a few hours to go now till the polling station opens …

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